AI Is Coming for Managers, Not Leaders

Plug: Paul Leon here. thank you so much for being consumer of the show and I want to take our relationship a step further. When you join our newsletter at the TheManagers Mic.com website I'm going to give you a free resource called a selling script to sky rocket sales.

Paul Leon: have with us today Sean Patton Whose mission is to unite greatness in each member the audiences he speaks with, which is elite teams. And in those audiences, Sean shares the secrets to creating high performing teams through mindset mastery His leadership foundation was forged as a US Army Ranger and Special Forces Green Beret Commander. During which he earned the respect of his men and his chain of command while operating hostile, politically sensitive environments. Sean Patton brings his unique combination of battle tested leadership and business experience to life on stage. Sean, wanna welcome you to the manager's mic. I'm Looking forward to our conversation today. I've been looking forward to for some time.

Plug: Thank you so much for being a listener and watcher of the show. And now back to the episode.

Sean Patton: Yeah, thanks for having me on, Paul. I'm really excited for this. I also I'm a executive performance coach at Novus Global. I've recently put my coaching practice underneath this larger firm because they're just doing really cool things and I get to work with amazing other coaches and work with bigger clients. that's what I'm up to these days on top of ⁓ you know, the speaking ⁓ and running my own podcast.

Paul Leon: here's my question to you. So you were in a special forces commander, which is incredibly hard achieve. in a special forces commander, which is incredibly hard to achieve. What do you think people hear or think when they hear special forces? Like 'cause there what I hear a lot from people who are similar experiences there's some definitions of what that is. So maybe for those who maybe are not familiar with that, let's talk about that a little bit to peel the onion and humanize you if that's fair.

Sean Patton: Yeah, totally. So, you know, this is actually like maybe an this is an interesting like educational piece that I think people get into because we sort of like hear these different terms in in the US military, like special operations, special forces, you know, SEALs, Delta, Rangers, like per you he hear all these different terms. I'd say the biggest misconception ⁓ that it's some sort of like giant military hierarchy. I'd say the biggest misconception ⁓ is that it's some sort of like giant military hierarchy. Like stapped on like you start at this one level, and then you move up to Army Ranger, and then you move up to Green Beret, and then you move up to Navy SEAL, all sort of like stacked like a totem pole. you work your way up, like there's some higher than the other. in reality, so when you when you hear the term special operations, that's the umbrella term for in the US, at least in terms of branches and units that are underneath the US Special Operations Command. So while they from an administration sense, like who pays the bills and gives them uniforms, it comes from Department of the Navy or Department of Army or Department of Whatever. it's from a command sense, they have a separate whole separate command. And so even in the in the press and in journalism, they get that mixed up. They'll use the term special forces those to mean everything from a s local SWAT team to ⁓ to Navy SEALs or something else. But

Paul Leon: Right.

Sean Patton: the umbrella term is special operations. And just like in a business where you wouldn't have eight teams inside your company that all did the same thing at varying levels of ability. Like that would be a silly way to build a company. You would never do that. So same thing in special operations, everybody has a special that they do really well. So, you might have a special boat team that you know.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: They're their job is to drive these really specialized boats. They drive the Navy SEALs around, they connect like ship to ship, and they're really great at that one thing. They also are great at deciding where you can, you know, moor up ships you know, where can ⁓ shipping lanes, stuff like that. So like a specialty thing. So what makes army special when you say special forces in the military, what you actually only mean doctrinally is army special forces or the Green Berets. And so what makes them different than what

Paul Leon: Hmm.

Sean Patton: you may think about when you see like movies or do whatever is usually when you see movies you think direct action. So you're seeing like raids and ambushes and hostage stuff or whatever, and that's part of what we do. But the larger mission of Army Special Forces is unconventional warfare. So our job is to go with a small team, like everyone on my team is regionally aligned. So I was in Fifth Special Forces group. And so everyone on my team, because we were aligned with the Middle East, spoke Arabic or Farsi.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: the larger mission of Army Special Forces is unconventional warfare. And so and so our job is to go in with a 12-person team link up with a local indigenous force. and then we train and equip and fight alongside them. in the most recent example of this is the initial invasion in Afghanistan, where we had the Taliban as the government that we wanted to overthrow. And they had the Northern Alliance and other rebel groups trying to do that.

Paul Leon: Really?

Sean Patton: So we, along with the CIA, sent a few teams in. So like 300 people, 300 Green Berets instead of an entire giant invasion force, went in, linked up with these local forces, got alongside them, and you had 12 Americans fighting alongside 500 local Afghanis and leading them and equipping them and like bringing forces. So like that is what makes Army Special Forces different. And I say that because as a leader of a unit like that.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: I say that because as a leader ⁓ of a unit like that. We're solving very complex problems We're solving very complex problems where it's not just like, here's your target packet, go hit the house, come back. Like that's a one type of like leadership. But ours was like, how do we integrate with different cultures? How do we solve these complex problems and and bring different resources to task? So that as a commander of a Green Beret team was very enriching and gave me a lot of opportunity to develop ⁓ as leader in the craziest.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: most wide ranging scenarios you can imagine, so that I'm able to bring that experience ⁓ to businesses.

Paul Leon: Is there a scenario, Sean, that you're comfortable speaking to that kinda highlights some leadership examples Is there a scenario, Sean, that you're comfortable speaking to that kinda highlights some leadership examples and that you can kind of look back on and say, Man, that was really tough and I'm glad it happened. Would you are you comfortable sharing anything from that time or is that too sensitive?

Sean Patton: Yeah. No, that's totally fine. I mean, from a leadership example I'll I'll give you ⁓ is went to ⁓ our area, we went to an Afghanistan with my first team. It was of the most violent regions in the world, right on the Afghan-Pakistan border, and it was right where you had these different ethnic groups and you had also a bunch of different Afghan forces in one place. So you had our area, we went to an Afghanistan with my first team. It was one of the most regions in the world, Afghan border police because it was on the border. You had the national police there because it was we had like city centers and things like that. You had the Afghan army, Because you're you're on like an international border and also like trying to fight this insurgency. You had and then you had like the local police and militias that we were sort of training and working with from the local groups. And one of the major issues that hadn't been solved or hadn't been able to be solved in this area is the fact that you had mistrust between all those different groups and you had in some of the leaders. ⁓ so, as you have in most parts of the world. And so someone would pay someone at a checkpoint to get through with fr ⁓ with bombs or explosives or somewhere else and then they would use them somewhere. So it's like this and be and then one group would hear about that happening and they would mistrust each other. So it became this like Very complex situation that for years no one had been able to really figure out. And conventional army was there just doing patrols and they were getting like up. What I mean by that was like there was a local the US Army infantry unit that was there, so I think 150 soldiers. And they had had multiple killed in action. They by the time they left, they had over half of their company had purple hearts for being wounded. I mean, they were getting ambushed. IED like it was a violent area. So I say that like you talked about a leadership challenge. Like, how are we going to go and what are we going to do to solve this with a bunch of competing interests? And maybe a parallel here, maybe less consequences, but is you know, the messiness of the market and having different division leaders and having a board or shareholders with clients and having you know, you wanna ⁓

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: advance this new technology, but you still have to make money over here. Like there's you have these competing interests that don't seem to go together. And so as a leader, it was what is the vision we have creating this compelling vision for the team besides we're just doing another combat rotation. Because this was 2011. So we had been in war in Afghanistan for 10 years. And some of those guys had gone back multiple times. And so it can get, just like in a company, it can get routine.

Paul Leon: Right. Yeah.

Sean Patton: And one thing we like to talk about in Novus Global is how for leaders, especially high performing leaders, can be both simultaneously overwhelmed and bored. And maybe that's maybe some people are kind of shaking their head, like, ⁓ crap, he's talking about me right now. Like high performing leaders who are like doing great things, you're taking things on your plate, and you're also kind of bored because the vision you've created is too small. What we find with leaders, and the same thing we find with some of those units, I would say that happened with that infantry unit there, was their vision, it's not their vision was too big, it's not they were chasing something too far. It's that their vision for their unit is actually too small. It's too small to ignite passion for it to be thrilling.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: For it to be engaging, to be worth the pain of transformation. And so we said, no matter what it was gonna take, our vision was we were gonna solve this problem. We were gonna how do we get creative and get involved with all these different factions and to make this happen? And so to fast forward like the different efforts, but basically what we came up with was and it's so funny because it's gonna sound so simple.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: But often, even with companies, the answer is the simplest one. Joint checkpoints. So we got all the leaders together and said, how about we have not just an Afghan border police checkpoint and then later down the road you have an army checkpoint? what if you manned them together with local militia, like local people who are from the area who aren't coming from other parts of the country? And now you have a natural check ⁓ on the people the inspections because you have people from different units all there to sort of like see what's going on. And it builds trust. And also then you build personal relationships because they're staying together for days at a time. So now they're now they're friends. Like they have buddies that are in these different places. And we would stay and live with them for days at a time at these checkpoints. And we would help create SOPs and we'd help like we as leaders, here's another leadership lesson. We have to see where friction points are. So friction points being where two different people or two different teams. Are coming together to do something that isn't like a standard operating procedure, that isn't normal operations. And so, as leaders, that's where we have to inject ourselves into those friction points. So we injected ourselves there as leaders to create this vision, to help them create this joint operations where they had these different forces. And we were able to do that, and we dramatically reduced the amount of violence and we dramatically reduced. the amount that even our local infantry was getting attacked the smuggling that was coming through that was contributing to larger attacks further inland.

Paul Leon: I wanna peel the onion around a few things there, if I have your permission to do that, Sean. I thought it was fascinating. You had said joint checkpoints one. And even though it sounds simple, I think I don't know always companies connect those dots or they don't look at the frame of mil not all companies, I'm just gonna say most, to be fair.

Sean Patton: Let's do it.

Paul Leon: I think if I heard you correctly, you said in your unit there was ⁓ you had to learn the language. W remind me what the language was again? It was was it Go ahead. Yeah.

Sean Patton: Well the interesting what's yeah, what's interesting is that the people in my team, we all knew Arabic or Farsi because we're primarily the Middle East. But because we were on the Afghan-Pakistan border, everyone spoke pashto so we still had to use interpreters. But we could we could still get we could still get by and we 'cause it was close enough to Farsi. And some of s some of the some of the local Afghans spoke Farsi because they speak Farsi in like the western part of the country that's near Iran.

Paul Leon: Okay. Right. Yeah. Yeah, see if I you you said it was twelve against five hundred earlier, or did I mishear those numbers? twelve soldiers against five hundred when you were speaking of that. Was that your unit or was that just I wanted to get a line. Those are very highlighted details. So I was just curious.

Sean Patton: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So an example where how a Green Beret team or special force team would operate during the initial invasion of Afghanistan, we would have, you know, twelve, a twelve man team that would drop that would link up with an a guerrilla force, like a lo like a Northern Alliance unit, and you might have five hundred or more local Afghanis with twelve Americans among them, and we would then ⁓

Paul Leon: Right. Gotcha. Right.

Sean Patton: go and fight alongside them. And we carried that forward. So we had missions with the local Afghan commandos where we had a we would send out a company of ⁓ commandos. think a hundred and twenty Afghan commandos on a night raid. And you'd have like eight Americans on the ground with them. That's a very different way to go into a fight than ⁓

Paul Leon: Okay.

Sean Patton: A SEAL platoon of 35, 40 guys who like you all know each other, you're all you're all Americans, you've been working together for years, you're like very precise. I use the example with like Navy SEALs all the time. It's it's so different because like if you're going to take down a ship, I don't know if you've ever been on a a ⁓ boat or a s ship, especially a military ship, or even a ⁓ commercial ship, but it's super narrow and tight. And so like if you're gonna shoot guns inside of there, inside of there, like you better be. ⁓

Paul Leon: Right.

Sean Patton: precise and you better be exact. That is a much different proposition than we're gonna land helicopters on the ground at night with 300 Afghanis with AK 47s and eight Americans and we're gonna assault a that's ⁓ both both complex and problems and difficult missions, but in just like radically different ways.

Paul Leon: Yeah. I can imagine. Yeah. From those experiences, do you I've heard stories I know you run some UFC gyms and stuff and I wanna get there in this dialogue with you about transitioning from that to that journey. But I've heard I used to ⁓ be a head coach for a CrossFit Gym A lot of people don't know this about me. Went out of business, didn't make any money with it, was why we'd have people from different military backgrounds talk about that band of brothers bond that is so unbreakable. I'm curious, is that still you have with some of those people since you've transitioned into being a business owner now? That you still have those relationships, or what you learned. about relationship from being with those band of brothers. I think I don't know if that's the correct definition, Sean. I'm just getting that from a movie title I saw on HBO. I'm being totally ⁓ with you, I don't have military experience, but I'm wondering if you could speak to some of that. Like I still have these relationships. Here's I've learned about relationship skills from having that band of brothers I was with so tight through the military.

Sean Patton: Yeah. Yeah. Hmm. Yeah, so I still have some of those relationships. know, it is interesting in the military how you get these very I think the you still have these bonds. but it is interesting how, man, this machine of the army, the military just keeps moving. So, like as officers, you know, you're there and you get these very tight and intimate relationships and trusting relationships so fast. And then years later, it's like on to the next role. And you all kind of go places. You still like know each other, but like the units are constantly changing and constantly moving in a way that's like way more than any civilian company you can imagine. Right. Because it's it's literally up and out. You know, imagine if you were in a company and there's certain companies that kind of run like this, like Amazon kind of does this. you're gonna a manager for three years. And in three years, you're either getting promoted or you're out. Or you're going to a different division and another manager's coming. Like it doesn't matter. You're not staying here. same thing with VPs, all the way up like the CEO. The CEO is there for three years. Like he's out. Like and and always. So you have this constant because you have new officers always coming in. So that's like that's a different than a a regular you know company. and to your point, the of Brothers thing, though, it's like, but because of the shared experience, because of the intensity of those experiences.

Paul Leon: Right.

Sean Patton: And because of the leadership, to bring it back to leadership, the leadership that creates a culture that bonds a team together, and that's a priority. So that is what I've carried forward now with my own companies and with you know clients that I work with as an as a coach and senior executives and CEOs, really around this concept of it's your job as a leader to ⁓ Build others up and invest in them and create relationships and have a company culture that is trusting ⁓ create that bond and invest in people and those relationships. we know that in the military so intensely. That's how you create that band of brothers. And obviously you go through very intense experiences together, which is how you you also bold people together as you go through adversity together. So ⁓

Paul Leon: Right.

Sean Patton: The questi the question would be like, how do you do that? Because so often in in corporate cultures, we are operating transactionally. tit for tat. What are you gonna do for me? You're you're thinking of people like they're a a function, they're a cog in the machine, and then wonder why they're not engaged and excited and giving you 110%. ⁓ and and so do you invest and and build relationships as a as a person? And what you find is the the the the parallel here is the best leaders ⁓ in ⁓

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: In both areas, and you see this in in in companies, is the person who's walking around and actually investing in the development of their people and helping and inspiring the people on their teams to become greater versions of themselves than even they thought possible. The leaders that are doing that in both military and civilian are getting people who will run through walls for you, who will go the extra mile, who will follow you anywhere. But it takes it what it takes is you stepping up and actually leading the human being, not just managing the job function.

Paul Leon: No, it's very well said. Do you believe there's a certain level of intensity that's needed even in the corporate workspace? I'm not saying go hit your boss in the face or anything like intense like that. I'm being traumatic and obviously nobody would do that of sound mind. But do you feel based on your experience, seeing those intense experiences, that sometimes we get a little too soft?

Sean Patton: I would say that but like in I would just describe maybe a little differently. I would say going back to this like compelling vision like intensity doesn't mean that you're yelling at people or like calling like it's not like that's not the same type of intensity, or you're like it also doesn't mean you're driving them into the ground you gotta work sixty hours or you can't be here. that's That is not strong leadership. What what actually bonds people together is to say like what do we want to accomplish as a team and then push it to where everyone's like, that would be awesome, but I have no idea how we're gonna do.

Paul Leon: Yeah. Okay, so that that's okay.

Sean Patton: And then you'd be like, yeah. And then it's like, ⁓ wow, okay. Well, we're gonna go chase it. well, we've been growing at, you know, three to five percent a year. So let's try to do six next year. No one's excited about that. we're gonna do 20 next year. Who do we have to become? Who are you gonna have to become? And by the way, instead of working 50 hours, I want I want people to work an average of 40 hours a week. How are we gonna grow by 20% and work 10% ⁓ less? Whoa, I don't know. That's a crazy problem. Cool. Let's go do it together. Like change that's that creates intensity, but doesn't create burnout and what we would call like a high performance mindset, just like doing more and more and more of the same. people get enrolled in that. Cause that's vision they could and and and they say, ⁓ by the way, if we do that, this is what it means for you. Like if you if we actually do that.

Paul Leon: Yeah. Yeah.

Sean Patton: Here's what you get, here's how it aligns with your vision for what you want. You want more time with your kids, you want to make more money and you want a promotion? Let's go chase this together.

Paul Leon: Okay. Gotcha. So intensity could be stretching that smart goal a little further out than what the team's comfortable with is just what I hear. You own your own of gyms. I think one of them's a UFC. If I understood it correctly, you can correct me if I'm wrong.

Sean Patton: And now people are engaged. Mm-hmm.

Paul Leon: I've always heard that transition into and you also have your MBA, I saw, like you're very well educated as well. Talk to me about that transition. Was it easy for you? Was there any types of struggles you had that you didn't expect that you've now overcome to make you the great leader you are today, Sean?

Sean Patton: Definitely not easy. I feel like in some ways I'm still ⁓ ⁓ and figuring out what even that means. Yeah, I'll give you like the the of like story of events and then kind of the deeper part of that role and I'll try to do it succinctly. so when I got out of the military in 2015, I knew that I wanted to do what I'm doing now. I know that I wanted to work with leaders. ⁓ and bring better to help them become the leaders that they're capable of, and help them bring leadership into their organizations. Because, probably everyone listening right now can think of a time when they are on a team with a great leader, hopefully. At some point, even if they were as a kid, right? Like your coach or whatever. And we know what that felt like. we know what it feels like to show up with a great culture, a great leader, and someone that we look up to, like, I want to be like this person. This person's making me better by me just. Being around them. Right? Like we know what that feels like. And then we probably know, probably more of us, even more experienced, of knowing what it's like to be with a crappy leader that some we don't respect, that someone isn't pushing us, that's treating everyone like a transaction. And that sucks. that's burnout. It's not from the amount of work, it's from doing things that don't inspire you. And and and not being called to a larger vision. That was my my big goal. despite all the things I had I had done ⁓ and I've a part of, like I was never really the gun guy or the gear guy. Like that stuff's great. You know, I like blowing up doors and and and doing that like every other red-blooded soldier. But for me it was always about people and problems and leadership. ever since since I was a kid, it's been about that. What I didn't want is I didn't want to be the military officer who got out and said, right, business leaders, let me tell you about real leadership.

Paul Leon: Right.

Sean Patton: when like I had never been in business a day in my life. and the joke I I tell is too many of us do that, usually with the first name Colonel. But so I thought, at least for me, I wanted to go prove myself in business first before I started ta talking to business leaders. I feel like I could relate to them more and understand. So it was getting a formal education in business because I went to West Point, the military academy. There's no business classes, at least there wasn't when I went. I don't know if there is now. So ⁓

Paul Leon: Okay. Yeah. Wow.

Sean Patton: I'd go get an MBA at UNC Chapel Hill. And then it was if I can start my own company and get it self-sustainingly profitable. it doesn't have to be some billion dollar unicorn. And like I I don't want it to be because I don't want to work on this thing for 20 years. I want to start a company that I enjoy doing, that's that I that I want to keep going, that makes money without me there. And I do that, it seems to be the fastest way to like see what leadership does apply for the military. What doesn't? What things do I need to learn? ⁓ All that stuff. what are the lessons? And so to your point, I first business, I did buy a UFC Gym franchise. And in my head, the franchise model like sounded great, Like you get a proven business model, run the play, lead a team. It's fitness, it's martial arts, two things I'm passionate about. Perfect. ⁓ were some good and bad things about that experience. particularly some of the support and some of my own knowledge, my own faults up front. I made some early mistakes in terms of like, man, there's there there's some big good business lessons here, but I'll

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: I'll keep this short so we can keep moving, but around ⁓ in my head it was like, let's start, like it has to be perfect. So, we have to be in the best spot. ⁓ We to be ⁓ all, know, all new stuff. It was a franchise, so like I couldn't go buy cheap stuff. I had to go buy the best greatest stuff. I had to buy branded stuff. and it grew initially proposed as like a 5,000 square foot gym to where now we do 10,000 square foot gyms. So it turned into a much bigger project. Basically, I took on a lease deal that was too expensive without realizing it. I got over-leveraged in terms of taking loans out to make it happen. And so by the time I I learned my operational lessons and I had a gym with well over 300 members doing $45,000 a month. And you said you're in the gym business. if you're doing $45,000 a month as a gym, you should be good. ⁓ we were still, because I'd gotten over leveraged with back taxes, I was still not making money. And so three years into it.

Paul Leon: Yeah. Yeah, really good.

Sean Patton: I ⁓ went through a bankruptcy, I lost everything and really caused me as I hit this low point to to do the deep inner work and I start questioning like my own identity. Because I had gone from, Captain America, like can't lose, West Point grad, Army Ranger, you know, all this stuff. And then in three years I went through a divorce. I left the only job I'd ever known in the military, my own I my own identity. And then I had started a company and failed and I lost people, everyone's money.

Paul Leon: Yeah. Yeah.

Sean Patton: And so it was a moment of reflection of wait a minute, who am I? And and recognizing my I was really through my entire life, even though I was accomplishing things, being driven by fear. I was being driven by the fear of not being enough, of not mattering, of feeling like I had something to prove that I had to achieve in order to feel valued. and so I did a lot of deep inner work on like. Who am I as a person outside of the job function I have and my role in society? So much of our our identity is, you know, it's easy to attach to our job and our business or our even our family. And then what happens if that gets taken away? we see this with stay-at-home moms. This isn't just like soldiers and CEOs, who raise kids and their entire if their entire value about themselves and their identity is like my kids need me. What when they what happens when they don't? Are you now as a human being?

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: Cause it can feel that way. It can feel that way. what happens when you you pour everything you have into a company for 10 or 15 years, 20 years, then you sell it, you get your big payday, and then after three weeks of vacation, you're miserable with a stack full of cash. That happens. I meet those people because your wasn't you never actually established, you avoided establishing who you were as a human being and your value as a human being outside of what you do. so that's the type of work.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: That took me into conscious leadership that propelled me then. I I also started then my own with a couple of investors, a non-franchised Brazilian jujitsu and MMA gym ⁓ called Legion Jiu Jitsu. We grew that to three locations. We sold one, we still have two, it's running great. And after a few years, from the ground up, being the CEO, the CMO, teaching the kids classes, scrubbing the toilets, selling the memberships, I got to a place where, at one point we did, you know, we were

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: worth multi-million dollar valuation. I had a CEO that runs it, GMs in each location. And so that's when I got my formal education in coaching ⁓ did this. And I've been sort of figuring that out for five or six years and then recently joined Novus Global. ⁓ now I feel after being on my own for five or six years, now being part of a team again, this elite team coming back to that idea. And I'm seeing the power of being a part of a team and ⁓

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: People who push me and give me feedback and f and call me on my BS to get better. And because of that, my coaching business is this year is going to 2x what I've done ever. I'm having more fun doing it. I more energy. And my clients are getting transformational instead of just good results. So it's that's a long answer to your question, but it's been a journey. And I would just say.

Paul Leon: ⁓ wow.

Sean Patton: That it really starts with a desire a commitment to ask yourself our favorite question at Novus Global, which you know, I used to talk about like chasing greatness. And to me, greatness is chasing this question is what am I capable of? So it's not about being the best, and it's not about comparison. It's about what are you capable of and what are you gonna create in this world and as a human being holistically? And if you can chase that question, You will by default be a leader because you will inspire and influence and empower others to do the same.

Paul Leon: That was really powerful. when was studying your background and I just want to say, Sean, you I do invite your feelings, whatever you're comfortable sharing. I just want you to know that that door's open. I liked your definition and studying your LinkedIn where it was Lead yourself first, which sounds very common, but as you know, being a business owner thing you went through, common sense is not always common. I say you have a leadership trinity framework. I could say it. I'm curious for those who maybe their first time meeting you, if you would walk through that framework, I know the first one is trust and kind of speak to that so we can peel the onion even deeper. I honestly I think your background alone, if people just hear up to this point, are already leveled up their leadership skills. So I was wondering if we could peel the onion around the the leadership trinity you coach and teach through in all of your coaching and clients you work with.

Sean Patton: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. so that's trust, communication, and growth. when wrote my my book, my book, A Warrior's The Six Keys to Greatness, available on Amazon. that was really about when I first started coaching, like what is the framework for self-leadership? So spoiler alert, the first five keys are how you lead yourself is like my personal framework on how to do that. And the sixth key is leadership. that was about when I was meeting with leaders.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: And I would first start talking to them about, you know, how they're running their companies, kind of like management, I would say it stuff, Management's about the efficiency of systems. And they all over it. Subject matter experts. They it. They're confident. Let's talk. Let's talk. And then we started talking about leadership and how they were leading themselves. And almost all of them gave me blank blank stays, stairs, stairs. They're like, What what do you mean? You're like, Well, I work out. Maybe they say that. Maybe I'll take care of myself.

Paul Leon: Mm.

Sean Patton: You know, like I they're doing things, but they don't actually have a system for how they lead themselves. So that's what that was about. I say that because then as I started working with more organizations, I created like I would I started creating and and and adopting different frameworks and all this stuff about like how organizations run. to still it down to like what is the simplest things if you want to have.

Paul Leon: Okay.

Sean Patton: Great leadership, like what's required? Where do need to focus? And and so as an org level, I came I came down to was these three things. If you can establish trust, have great communication, and commit it to growth, which means you have systems around those three things. Those aren't just things you say. So how are you building trust inside your inside of your organization? And are you checking it? And what I love at Nova's Global is we talk about integrity.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: So what tell my executive coaching clients is like, my job is to care more about your integrity than anyone else in your life, including you. Which means are you doing what you say you are going to do when you say you're gonna do? And if you have a if you have a team, like organization with high trust, you have a team of high integrity. So integrity isn't about some moral compass about like ethically right or wrong. do you do what you say you're gonna do when you say you're gonna do it? when you do that, you have trust on your team. So how we if how are we building trust? And when we and when we fail at that, because we're human beings and we're going to, what do you do about it then? Do you own it?

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: Hey, I messed up. I I was going to have this project. I said I was going to have you this direction. I didn't do that by time. How did that impact you? How can I rebuild trust with you? Here's my new commitment. So leading with integrity and creating trust inside your organization is the first pillar. Communication. Communication is not like that should be something that as a leader you think about for your strategy of like, how are we communicating? And you should think about it all the time. And where are we, where are we losing communication? And you've got to communicate every direction. So it's more about like what channel does what thing go in. But if you want to really simplify it, it's like how is information going from the top getting down to everyone so they understand it? And then where is the opportunity for us to regularly get feedback, not once a year, every day, every week, every meeting? Not saying, do you have anything to tell me or you need help with? What are three things that I could do better as a leader? What are three things we're messing up as a company? it has to be a regular function that ⁓ that happens. It can't be, yeah, I have an open door policy. there was a problem, they would come tell me. No, they aren't. No, they aren't telling you. They're not coming through your open door policy. And the first and the first time they give you feedback and they hear nothing back, they're never giving you feedback again. Not honest feedback.

Paul Leon: Ha ha

Sean Patton: Much less if some negative consequence comes from it. But even if you're not going to do anything with feedback, at least they'd be like, hey, we heard you and we'll get back to you at this date, or we heard you. And guess what? We're not going to do that because we have these other strategic reasons or budgetary constraints. But just so you know, thanks for your feedback. Cool. They'll give you feedback again. So, how do we create this constant feedback loop inside inside the company? So that's the two, that's the second one. And the third one is growth. And the reality is you're either growing or you're dying. And People, there's a company that's true. You're either there, there is no homeostasis in business or in life. your muscles are either in an anabolic anabolic or cali catabolic state. Your muscles are you either getting stronger today or you're getting weaker. You're not staying the same. You're getting smarter or you're getting dumber. Your company's getting better or it's getting worse. There's no there is no steady state. And so if you're not into your people, if you don't know

Paul Leon: Yeah, yeah.

Sean Patton: measurably how your people are getting better, they're getting worse. And so growth and investing in your people and having a plan about like what are they chasing for themselves and how are they getting better and holding them accountable and empowering them to go do that. Because the people you want on your team and especially as we move forward in this world with AI and everything else that's coming right now what you need is the high performance, you need the the performers who are going to look for problems to solve.

Paul Leon: Avan

Sean Patton: who are gonna be high ownership, who are going to identify and solve problems you didn't even know existed, those people value growth over even compensation. Those people, if they're in a job and making 20% more but they're miserable because they're doing the same routine crap every day and they're not getting better and they know they're getting worse at their job, those people are looking for another job in a heartbeat. If they're making 20% less but they're like,

Paul Leon: Yeah. Yeah.

Sean Patton: Every day I show up at this job, I'm getting better. ⁓ are pouring into me. I'm learning new skills. I'm getting better at leading myself. I'm getting better at communication. Because I'm being held to integrity at my job. I'm being I'm holding integrity in my family. My relationships are better. My kids are better. That person is not leaving that job. And they're ⁓ they're highly engaged. So it really comes down to trust, communication, and growth.

Paul Leon: Yeah. Yeah, I ain't mad to that. you also do have a very powerful podcast on leadership. That I was wondering if you would like to share what that free resource is a little more, like what people can expect. And I'll put links to the show notes for those listening to your book and to your podcast. But what people could expect to gain.

Sean Patton: ⁓

Paul Leon: from your podcast if they decide to tune into that free resource to help level up those leadership skills.

Sean Patton: Yeah, thanks for that. Yeah. So my podcast is called No Limit Leadership. I have a few different types or archetypes of people on there. Sometimes it is the thought leader, The person who's on the cutting edge, who's writing the books, who's who's got here's what's coming, here's you know the academic approach to things and like leveling up that way. So there's sort of three components. Another one is ⁓ a high level executive coach, from someone at my firm, Novis Global, because we coach professional athletes, Fortune 100 companies.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: ⁓ you know, prof like we super high-level people. So I get the best executive coaches in the world to come on and share what they're seeing with their clients and what they see move the needle, And then I get operational level leaders. founders, CEOs, or even just like I say just, but like a VP of sales in a company right now. Like, what is life like? Like what challenges are you having? How are you overcoming them? So operational real-world leaders.

Paul Leon: Yeah.

Sean Patton: Who who talk about like what's working for them and what they're struggling with currently. And then we kind of work through that. So you're gonna hear from all three types of those people. And you talk about like a commitment to growth as a leader. Like that's that's a non-negotiable. If you're a leader, that means you're a learner. Like that's part of saying you're gonna be a leader. And so if you're gonna be a leader, you're gonna be a learner. I would invite you to check my podcast out, or this one or another one, but like you should be consuming.

Paul Leon: Yeah. Well said. Yeah.

Sean Patton: content in your brain that is helping you steer focus on how am I becoming a better leader, right? Cause it's one thing to read like industry magazines and know what's going on in industry or keep the latest technology or whatever. That's awesome. But if you're committed to becoming the leader that you're truly capable of and exploring that, like what books are you reading, what podcasts are you listening to, what newsletters are you reading? That's focused on leadership.

Paul Leon: Yeah. No, very well said. And I invite people to check out your your podcast. And I always have told people, rotate your content. Everything's brainwashing. It's just what what are you washing your brain with is what one of my first coaches told me. Sean, what haven't we talked about around leadership that we need to talk about? Whether it's something that you hear a lot that irks you that people say what leadership is and we need to demystify that, or it's just something important to you in the next five to ten years.

Sean Patton: Yeah.

Paul Leon: as leadership starts to accelerate or decelerate wherever people are, what is it we haven't talked about that's important around this term that you are the expert on?

Sean Patton: Good question, ma'am. I feel like we hit on so much and I could go in so many directions with this. what I would say is that human leadership as technology and automations and agents and all that stuff come into play, is going to become an even more critical task to those who are going to be successful and those who aren't. And it can be kind of counterintuitive because, wait a minute, we're going to have, AI agents working for us to do all these different things and automations and robots like why is human leadership because the reality is that what's going to happen is companies are gonna shrink by head count and if you are only know how to ⁓ be an be be someone who shows up and has to be told all right you're gonna be a processor here here's step one through 12 go do it that person already is out of a job right and you're a manager Who was used to being middle manager who's like, my job is to take what the person above me tells me, and then I go and I tell it to eight other people and I make sure they do it. You're out of a job too. So what is what's really gonna happen is you're gonna have small companies of like 20 to 30 people, a hundred people that are doing the jobs of 5,000, and they're gonna be empowered with technology to do engineering, design, and marketing. And that person is gonna need a leader who's gonna inspire them and help them take that to the next level and think and transform outside the box in very quick ways. And they're gonna be adaptable and they're gonna be bought in. And that team of like going back to almost our full circle, green bray team, like like that's very much like a green bray team. You get like 12 people who are highly motivated, highly engaged, and they're smart driven people, 10 times more productive. How are you gonna lead that team? Because that team is not interested in being managed.

Paul Leon: Yeah. Yeah.

Sean Patton: The robots, the i i mean, honestly, like the final message. I actually had a keynote that I put together that I I never got to give, but maybe it's funny because I put this together like five years ago, and my gosh, is it's is it coming true in my mind? So I should maybe I need to pull this back up. Robots are coming for managers. We don't need managers. My A I I can create an open cloud or cloud age. I can have, I can I'm managing myself with AI. Like I we don't need managers anymore. Robots are gonna take your management job, but they're not taking leadership. You what Claude's not doing? It's not calling me on my BS. It's not disrupting my thought patterns. It's not doing and it's not calling me to be a better human being, a better version of myself beyond what I even think of is possible. No robots doing that. That's leadership. So if you want to step into that, I would call you into that because if you don't and you want to just be a manager, like a robot's coming for your job, man.

Paul Leon: Well said. Very well said.